we know Lucas is the only bishop as of now, and we thought that having 3 in office was a nice way of keeping balance within the power.

as for templars, we believe they are...
Draconis - artifice, Hugh & Sparks - knowledge, Vox - courage, and Edward - to the archbishop.
are we still planning on having 2 templars per bishop?

what about templar of influence, rituals, or something new along those lines?

we were thinking something like having a bishop for each trait (physical, social, and mental). then having 2 templars for each that would be assigned to the opposing trait(s).

*i.e. you have bishops X,Y, and Z representing physical, social, and mental respectively. and you have templars A & B (physical), C & D (social), and E & F (mental). so bishop X is assigned C & E, Y is assigned A & F, and Z would be assigned B & D. creating a triumvirate of not only the bishops, but of them and their templars.
OR you can take the easy way out and assign physical with physical...etc.

any ideas or nominations for bishop and/or templar position(s)...

Wise Words brother, and sound logic. Your model provides the greatest security and versatility for all three groups. However, on the other hand, if we were to group all three physical cainites together (and of course, the other groups respectively) we would have created a hierarchical ranking system for those who have it in mind to declare themselves "the best" of a certain field. For instance, the physical bishop would be the strongest fighter in the city, followed by the two physical templars (again, apply the same logic to the other two groupings). This is another line of thought to take into consideration.



Valneus Viscera
Champion of The White Hand
Childe of Orbis Vinco
Scion of the Vinco Line

Generally I find it most suitable when subordinates diversify their leader.

I don't believe splitting on mental/social/physical is all that helpful. We wind up with Michael Corleone standing equal to Fredo and Luca Brasi.

What we should aim for is the strength that each can provide our city individually and not only trying to fit them to a mold.

If, after being proclaimed bishop, they truly wish to be molded, I will happily offer my services.

----------------
"I am the Dragon. And you call me insane. You are privy to a great becoming, but you recognize nothing. To me, you are a slug in the sun. You are an ant in the afterbirth. It is your nature to do one thing correctly. Before me, you rightly tremble."

We agree with all of the above statements but We do believe that having Bishops that can help guide people in those rolls would help to strengthen our city. People that can help spread their knowledge in their specific disiplines would be most helpful in our goal of freedom of will would it not?

Bishops molded specifically to fill a role we disagree with. However our brother is wise in that he suggests more diversified candidates for the position. Hugh for example cannot fight to save his unlife. We have been in his pack over a year and not once has he been effective as a fighter. The difference between Hugh and the others of us who are ineffective in combat is that Hugh knows where he is effective. Hugh Lofting is a paragon of influence and resource in Lexington and uses his mastery of animalism to create "way-stations" during combat. Through Hugh's efforts our exhausted or wounded brothers have a ready supply of blood to heal and return to the fight. Not all Bishops need to be combat effective and do not think for a second that that's a requirement. Tobias was an excellent bishop and he was less combat ready then Hugh.

If a Bishop excels in the mental or social area and is less then effective in combat it is a templar's duty to fight and die if need be to protect the Bishop. Anything that requires a Bishop to fight and cannot be solved by a templar will either be a ritae, or will be dealt with by us. In conclusion, we agree with our brothers, versatility is key. Fighters we have, what we need are leaders; do not forget that.



Valneus Viscera
Champion of the White Hand
Childe of Orbis Vinco
Scion of the Vinco line

Well put brother Valneus. Our example was meant to be just that, an example. The bishop(s) and templar(s) need to be in place because of what they offer the city as a whole. Being a capable fighter is fine (and quite needed in the Sabbat), but to be honest it is not that difficult to be effective in combat. It is far more difficult to be an effective leader. Decision making can be perilous when others existences hang in the balance.

That being said, we are all part of a great war. War with the camarilla, the tremere, werewolves, humans, and at times each other or even ourselves. Never forget that. You must be strong, and you must be able to overcome any opposition. We are all soldiers in the Sabbat.

(OOC) Guys we'd like some more outside input on this (remember the Vinco line is effectively a hivemind, we don't need to debate with each other on a forum). We promise we still value your opinion even if it disagrees with ours (we won't bite......much).


Chris Dettone
Chair-holder of the Mt. Healthy Unemployment line
Certified Sex Therapist
Registered Internet Minister

(ooc) I know Voxs name has been said a few times dont know if this is still being tossed around or not

I disagree with pretty much every statement made here. Being Bishop isn't about who is the strongest, fastest, toughest, most charismatic, most manipulative, most attractive, most perceptive, smartest or wittiest. It is about who are the best leaders for the city. Personality and leadership matters more than skill, and we shouldn't choose a strong or tough Bishop or reject a wise and knowledgable Bishop just to fill a slot.

Or has the Sabbat reduced itself to practicing affirmative action? Are we an "equal opportunity employer" now?

The same goes for Templars. The Bishops should choose Templars who best fulfill the duties they think need to be fulfilled, not slotting them into predefined roles based on some kind of arbitrary statistics.

-Alex
Koldunic Sorcerer

Did you not read all the staments made by us? We think you would be surprised IF you did read all of the statements that all people posted here. We do believe alot of us agreed with you yes? Taking the time to read the above would greatly improve your knowledge before statements where made.

Vox Vinco